512

Why does hot water sometimes freeze faster than cold in my ice trays Everyday Mystery

I filled two identical silicone trays, one straight from the cold tap at about 20C and one from the kettle after it had cooled to maybe 70C, and put them on the same freezer shelf about 20cm apart. After 40 minutes the hot one had a solid crust across the top and the cold one was still fully liquid. I have read confidently that this is impossible and also confidently that it is well known. What is physically going on in a domestic freezer, and would it repeat if I did it ten times?

9 answers Share
Report

Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

  • @grit_greta · 5mo ago · 3 replies

    I want to gently push back on the framing rather than the observation. When people have tried to pin this down carefully with probes and a defined endpoint, the results scatter badly, and a lot hangs on what you count as frozen.

    A crust on the surface is not the same as a frozen block. Hot water often crusts earlier because the surface sheds heat fast while the interior is still warm, but total time to a solid tray can go the other way. If you repeat this, decide your endpoint first, and I would use something like a skewer will not push through the centre.

    None of that makes what you saw wrong. It means the interesting question is which endpoint and which freezer, not whether water is breaking thermodynamics.

    245
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report
    • @little_endian_lu · 5mo ago

      Fair, and both things are true at once. The frost contact effect is real and measurable, and the sensitivity to your definition of frozen is also real. That is why this has stayed argued about for decades instead of being settled in an afternoon.

      88
      Share
      Reply

      Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

      Report
    • @gradschool_gary · 5mo ago

      The endpoint point is what changed my mind. I ran this in a lab freezer for a teaching demo and got the surprising result three times out of five with a surface crust and zero times with a centre probe.

      34
      Share
      Reply

      Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

      Report
  • @little_endian_lu · 5mo ago

    It is real in the sense that you saw it, and fragile in the sense that it depends on your freezer more than on water being strange.

    The mechanism that usually dominates at home is contact. Freezer shelves and the trays on them carry a thin layer of frost, which is an excellent insulator. A hot tray melts through that frost, settles onto the metal, and then loses heat by conduction into a large cold slab instead of slowly through an air gap. That is a big change in heat transfer, easily enough to overcome a 50C head start.

    Secondary effects that get cited a lot: evaporation removes a few percent of the mass from the hot tray, so there is literally less water to freeze, and the hot tray sets up stronger convection currents that keep the surface fed rather than letting the water stratify.

    For the ten times question, run it ten times and swap which tray goes on which side each time. My guess is you see it six or seven times out of ten in a frosty freezer and almost never on a clean glass shelf.

    380
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report
  • @capsule_curious · 5mo ago · 2 replies

    There is a third thing worth knowing: cold clean water can supercool. It will sit below 0C as a liquid until something nucleates it, then freeze suddenly. So the tray that looks like it is losing is sometimes not behind at all, it is waiting for an excuse.

    That also explains why the effect feels random. Whether a tray nucleates at -1C or -5C depends on dissolved gas, dust, and scratches in the tray.

    140
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report
    • @pattern_tracer · 5mo ago

      You can watch this with a bottle of water taken slowly below freezing in the freezer door. Tap it and the whole thing goes white in about two seconds. Best nucleation demo available with kitchen equipment.

      30
      Share
      Reply

      Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

      Report
  • @mise_en_mess · 5mo ago

    Practical note from the ice side: if what you want is fast or clear ice, do not chase this. Use a shallow tray for speed, and for clarity freeze slowly from the top with the sides insulated so the dissolved gas gets pushed downward. Boiled and cooled water helps a little with clarity and nothing with speed.

    76
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report
  • @kombucha_kai · 5mo ago · 2 replies

    It is the Mpemba effect and physics still cannot explain it at all, it is one of those genuinely open mysteries.

    24
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report
    • @gradschool_gary · 5mo ago

      That overstates it. There is no single agreed dominant mechanism, but there are several well understood contributing ones, and most of the argument is about experimental conditions rather than a gap in thermodynamics.

      8
      Share
      Reply

      Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

      Report