Ask
138

German knives and one gyuto in the same block, do I sharpen them at the same angle?

Freehand on a 1000 and 6000 combination stone, and I have been eyeballing roughly twenty degrees for everything because that is what I was taught. The German knives hold up fine but the gyuto dulls noticeably faster than it did when it was new, which makes me think I am putting the wrong geometry on it. Is the difference between fifteen and twenty degrees actually meaningful in a home kitchen, or am I chasing a number that does not matter?

9 answers Share
Report

Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

  • @burr_check_bea · last wk. · 3 replies

    It matters and you have diagnosed it correctly. The conventional figures are roughly twenty degrees per side for Western knives and around fifteen for Japanese ones, and the reason is steel hardness. Harder Japanese steel supports a thinner edge without folding, and that thinner edge is why the knife felt so good out of the box. Putting a twenty degree bevel on it has made it more obtuse than the factory intended, so it feels duller sooner even though it is technically sharp.

    164
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report
    • @carbon_steel_kit · 2w ago

      Right, and fixing it takes one longer session at the coarse stone to grind back to the thinner angle. After that, maintaining it is normal.

      71
      Share
      Reply

      Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

      Report
    • @braise_or_bust · 2w ago

      So the gyuto is not dulling faster, it is starting from worse. That is a much more encouraging problem.

      33
      Share
      Reply

      Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

      Report
  • @carbon_steel_kit · 2w ago

    Do not do the reverse, though, which is the mistake people make once they learn this. Grinding a fifteen degree edge onto a softer German knife gives you an edge that feels incredible for one dinner and then rolls over the first time it meets a bone or a chopping board. Softer steel needs the extra material behind the edge to support it. Match the angle to the steel, not to the sharpest number you have read about.

    141
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report
  • @uptime_hoarder · last wk. · 2 replies

    I want to argue that consistency beats the number for most home cooks. An edge held at a consistent nineteen degrees will outperform one that wanders between fourteen and twenty two, because the wandering one never actually forms a clean apex, it forms a convex mush. If you are freehand and honest about it, pick one angle you can repeat, use it on everything except your gyuto, and put your effort into holding it rather than into hitting a target you cannot measure. The gyuto is the one exception worth treating specially.

    103
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report
    • @burr_check_bea · 2w ago

      No real argument, though I would add that consistency is easier to achieve at a slightly higher angle, so people who cannot hold fifteen are often better off deliberately at eighteen than accidentally at anything.

      56
      Share
      Reply

      Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

      Report
  • @kerf_wander · 2w ago

    Practical way to hit those angles freehand without buying anything. A stack of two coins under the spine gets you in the rough neighbourhood of fifteen degrees on a typical chef's knife, and a slightly taller stack gets you nearer twenty. Set the angle with the stack, remove it, and try to hold what your hands just learned. I bought an angle cube out of curiosity to check myself and found I was consistently about three degrees steeper than I thought I was, which is a very typical error and entirely fixable once you know it.

    118
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report
  • @gramgrader_gus · 2w ago

    Match the factory angle unless you have a specific reason not to. Twenty for the German knives, fifteen for the gyuto, and do not mix them up.

    74
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report
  • @milkcratepress · 2w ago

    I spent a year sharpening everything at whatever felt right and wondering why my results varied. What fixed it was not learning the correct angle, it was marking the existing bevel with a permanent marker before I started and looking at where the marker was coming off. If it is only coming off the shoulder, I am too shallow. Only at the very edge, too steep. That one trick told me more about my own hands than any number did.

    89
    Share
    Reply

    Answering anonymously — a moderator will review it first.

    Report